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Tony Rush

Fascinating. I have no experience with alcoholism personally and only a little within my personal friends.

Thoughts that come to mind:

1. Firstly -- and foremost -- I love who you're choosing to be. You've always been an inspiration and -- even though I wasn't aware of your struggles with alcohol -- I'm inspired by your openness and your decision to deal with it.

You rock. :)

2. Secondly, the mini- "are you an alcoholic quiz", if I were to put in the word "food" where you have the word "drink".....it would seem that one could make the argument that overeating is also a disease.

While that may well be true for a tiny minority....most of us who are overweight just aren't exercising the self-control required to manage our weight properly. At least I know that's true in my case.

So, I guess my thought is similar to Jeremiah's: what's the positive benefit to putting alcoholism in its own private little category of "choiceless addiction" away from other vices that are equally behavior-driven?

3. Two of the three steps that you've adopted for dealing with alcoholism apparently require you to believe in an invisible, supernatural being for whom no evidence exists and from which all his/her influences on our lives can be explained by other, rational, real-world causes.

I'm not making an argument for atheism at all. But, I have to ask: given the almost TOTAL IMPORTANCE of getting free of alcohol's reign on your life.....what's the thinking behind believing in supernaturalism as a means to that end?

Proud of you brother!


John Fogg

TR— thrilled you're here! N kidding.

Your "believing in supernaturalism..." isn't how I hold it. My believing is in a power greater than myself. I call that power GOD. I give GOD the credit for taking away my desire/need to drink long enough for me to straighten out that part. NOw, my journey is one of expanding GOD in my life & work.

My life "had" become unmanageable. I tried (and tried and tried) to do it myself to no avail. One night, as if by magic, I quit. Next day, I wanted, but didn't. Still on occasionally do Haven't for 134 days. I choose to call it a miracle and I "blame" the Source of Creation for it.

Works for me.

And that makes me a deluded whatever (and I didn't say you said that)— then whatever I shall be. I ask. I pray. Miracles (little ones so far, mostly). I study (Christ's teachings, Emmett Fox, others... ANYthing I can get my head & heart around that will help me let Ceaser have his shi- and GOD have the good stuff .

Tony, I cannot make a tree. GOD (name it/he/she whatever) was & is the Source of it and ALL Else. I'm all about tapping into THAT and letting the chips fall. So far... I'm sober, got my wife & life back (for now ), and I'm focused on "THY WILL not my will be done." So far, my results are WAY better than on my will.

I'll keep you posted, so to speak

Thanks for being here. I appreciate you— lots.

Jeremiah Charles

Apologies about the delay. I wanted to make sure I was "present" when replying.

I appreciate what you are saying and, again, am glad you are licking this affliction...or at least the symptoms. Upon reading it, again doing so again, one thing struck me. It sounded very familiar. And it sounded familiar because I have had this discussion with another AA member(?) not too long ago and his response bore striking similarities. When I hear something like this, I take a step back.

I did a little digging (not an exhaustive search) and found some information about alcohol allergies. They do not seem to have anything to do with addiction and the symptoms are different than what one would identify with what is commonly known as an "alcoholic". And, while I do understand that you and those in similar circumstances would do well to steer clear of alcohol to avoid spiraling out of control like you have said you do, it seems to me through observation and a little research, that the alcohol is only the means to the end and that it is merely a symptom of an underlying issue in the body. It seems that, without actually addressing this causal factor, that removing one substance is not fully addressing it and you may seek another addicting behavior to replace the old one, albeit perhaps less damaging. For instance, I knew a man once who had this issue and told me that it ran in his family. Most of the ones afflicted sought alcohol, some drugs. One particular uncle of his was a teetotaler on religious grounds, being a Southern Baptist preacher, or some such. It so happens that, while he did not indulge in drunkenness or drug use, he had an overwhelming urge to overindulge in chocolate! He couldn't get enough of the stuff! So, this is kind-of what I am getting at with this whole subject. I truly believe that AA, while good intentioned, unnecessarily demonizes alcohol itself and does not address what causes such ones to have such a reaction to it and other substances. And, by doing so, they keep the person trapped in a cycle of self-flagellation like an Opus Dei priest who wakes up every morning and flogs himself with the label "alcoholic" and psychologically keeps people dependent on their group and it's fraternal support system.

Forgive me if I am crossing any lines between us. It is not my intent to undermine any recovery you are going through. And, while I have experienced things related to this vicariously through others close to me, it is not something I personally deal with, so I am approaching this strictly in an objective, academic sense. At the same time, I just have concern that ones like yourself are not getting the best treatment possible to help in a more lasting way. Does what I am saying make sense? I hope you don't take this as me trying to debate you on the issue or be argumentative. If it is better to do so, this can end here. And, my apologies for my lack of writing skills, as I know I am addressing a master :-)

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